Ravi joins to talk about working to become a dentist, and most importantly, his battles with alcohol and drug addiction. Ravi is the eldest brother of Akshay Sura, a partner at Konabos Consulting Inc.
Akshay Sura
Welcome to the Konaverse podcast. This is Akshay Sura,
Matthew McQueeny
and this is Matt McQueeny.
Akshay Sura
And with us today is my elder brother Ravi.
Matthew McQueeny
Hi Ravi, how are you?
Ravi
I'm doing good. How about you?
Matthew McQueeny
We're good. So you're over in India right now, right?
Ravi
Yeah,
Matthew McQueeny
What time of day is it now?
Ravi
8:32pm, June 8th
Matthew McQueeny
Not too bad, not too bad. So Ravi, you you know, our co host here pretty well. So I'm gonna ask you, where did you grow up?
Ravi
I was born and brought up in Hyderabad, it is part of the Telangana state, South India.
Matthew McQueeny
And what kind of what kind of childhood did you have?
Ravi
Oh, I was the baby born with a golden spoon. Brought up like a rich kid because after my parents marriage, without family planning, they did not have kids for seven years. And I was born after seven year of marriage and in seven months I was premature baby. So they took care of me very very preciously.
Matthew McQueeny
So I would be it would be remiss of me not to ask about Konabos' leader, Akshay, your brother. What was he like as a as a younger sibling growing up?
Ravi
Oh, he was a silent kid, very, very honest and obedient guy from the childhood. On time for everything, and is a planned guy, plans everything according to the plan only he knows. He does not like dishonesty and he gives a lot of respect to the elders. The memories, I mean. We take a thought my grandmother, my mother, my father and myself he has the update on a regular basis. One thing he cannot stand is dishonesty.
Matthew McQueeny
Well, that's, that's an important thing to know. It's a good, it's a good, it's a good piece. So I know when I've talked to him in the past. He was almost like, he was almost seen as like the person who was going to probably stay home. Were you surprised when he left and traveled and now lives in lives in America.
Ravi
Yeah I am. Half of his life actually he stayed in a rural area away from the city and about six to seventh grade, he joined us and next five years he left the UK.
Matthew McQueeny
So we're talking about his study, where did you study? And what did you study?
Ravi
Basically, I'm a dental surgeon. I joined my university in 1991, it was a hard time. I took two year, three years, more to complete the course because of my addiction. But I eventually completed
Matthew McQueeny
So you kind of jumped in there yourself there. I know that addiction is a big part of your life as it is for many people who who find themselves in thrall of it right. For you, how did addiction start? Was it pressure was it trying to feel comfortable? Like what was it about? What was it about your life at the time or whatever the case may be what how did it start for you, addiction?
Ravi
Well, I started in my college, where I joined my BDS. That was the first time I left my parents and I stayed away from them. That was huge freedom at once. Nobody to monitor. The friend circle, they were already into alcohol and drugs. They wanted to have a party for the first day. I pretended I acted like, you know, I also do drugs and alcohol for a long time. I took alcohol for the first time there
Matthew McQueeny
What was it that made it hard for you to not continue using it? What was it? Uh, you know, a lot of times you hear was it a crutch? Was it something that you know you needed to have each day? Or was it something that wasn't daily? Like what how did it kind of take over your life?
Ravi
Initially, alcolhol was never enough for me. I took battle for battles of different sources of alcohol. By the time I completed two years of my education, their graduation, we were about to know, the results were about to be announced and I was very tensed at that moment and that was a daytime. So I went on my team, which I thought I can have some little bit of alcohol so that it can control my feelings. But then at that moment of time, I was not having enough money. So I asked one of my local friends to help me out to get some alcohol. That guy is a pharmacy guy. He has a pharmacy dealership. So he said, What do you get if you drink alcohol, you asked me, I said I'm bit tensed. And I might get pressure might relieve if I take alcohol. Then he gave me a syrup, it contains codiene phosphate, he said, "You take this a little bit is enough, just 50 ml is enough to take care of you very well, and you won't get the smell, nobody can find out that you are intoxicated" and all that stuff. He said, in case if you're not satisfied, then I'll buy you an alcohol bottle he said. I said its a good gamble, nothing going to go wrong "no this small 50ml is not going to change anything." And I took it 10 minutes or so then it started working and I liked the high very well. And then in a half an hour of time I got my results announced and I was passed out. Then my brain started playing games against me saying that we serve a good ritual. Now, this can go on for a long time on a daily basis. I went into drugs and multiple drugs I started chasing after that first shot within a span of two to three years of time. There was no end to you know, stopping any sort of drug everyday is a ritual that I had to have some sort of drug.
Matthew McQueeny
And, you know, one question I would as we move through. So Akshay, you were six or seven years younger. So you're still like when this is going on? You're You're like a teenager right? What did you sense happening with your brother? Was it obvious? Was it hidden? What did you sense?
Akshay Sura
See, back then we had no clue, right. In the sense I didn't know about drugs I know. But all call I've seen adults consume alcohol and act stupid. But I guess we were sheltered. I don't really know at that time. I didn't know there was a concept of drugs or anything of that sort. But the place where both my brother and sister get their dental was far away from us in the sense we were kind of isolated other than when they would come home, which is once in a while. So I would say the only thing I would remember when I was younger is when he would be home is he would sleep a lot. That's the only thing I remember.
Matthew McQueeny
And so Ravi, you said, so you had a first of all, what was what was the alcohol? Initially that hooked you what was the kind of alcohol was a beer, wine, hard liquor.
Ravi
Initially, it was beer. Later on, I moved on to whiskey
Matthew McQueeny
Got it. And, and you were just saying before that a pharmacist almost helped you tried to help you by giving you a codiene infused cough syrup, right?
Ravi
Yeah
Matthew McQueeny
Well, you know, it's it's amazing because I don't know if you've ever seen this but in the United States in the south, there is a whole kind of culture, I think it's called trap music or something like that. And they create drinks from cough syrup. It's a very so it's a very intoxicating mixture, isn't it?
Ravi
Yeah.
Matthew McQueeny
And what did it make? What did it make you feel like when you when you took it? Did you just felt like Nothing? Nothing in the world could touch you, right?
Ravi
Yeah, that's one of the thing I've heard that but main thing was, I used to, you know, actually what happened is I used to be still like a statue. For one two hours and world is obviously going on. But what I saw was, I was going around and world is stagnant. Everything became stagnant. And I am only the one who is doing everything.
Matthew McQueeny
Were you involved in any accidents when you were intoxicated?
Ravi
Oh too many, too many. I lost my fingers and my toes and arm. Too many accidents
Matthew McQueeny
And what was what was the nature of those? Were they vehicular? Were they cars? Were they you know that you say they lost your hand?
Ravi
I lost my right arm in a car accident. Toes and all that in a bike accident.
Matthew McQueeny
Wow. And so you were you driving the car? Or were you a passenger?
Ravi
No I always drive my own car. Even if I go along with my friends I would prefer to drive.
Matthew McQueeny
Wow. And so you were intoxicated at that point. And so nothing? You didn't? You probably didn't even really feel it. And did you have anyone in the car car with you at the time?
Ravi
The time of accidents, no.
Matthew McQueeny
Well, that's a blessing, right? Because they say a lot of times when there's a car accident that the person who is intoxicated you say is almost since I don't want to say safer, but is looser. And sometimes the person who's not tenses up and it can cause you know, greater, greater accidents. So, Wow, that's a lot. That's a lot of travails. So it seems like you recognize there was an issue, but when what made you I think you were saying before we came on, it's 18 years clean today, is that right?
Ravi
Yeah
Matthew McQueeny
So what was the process of recognition of this where you really wanted to, you really wanted to turn it around and stop?
Ravi
My period was somewhere around nine to 12 years. By the time I came to the end of my addiction I already lost my wife she left a lot and then she left me and she went up to her mother's place. She took my kid along with her. My parents were getting scared to, you know allow me to stay along with them. So they will they throw me out of the house and I have to live in a hostel but still I was somehow coning money and getting the things done. One day, my father threatened me saying that if you still continue to do this, I will put you in a hospital so get your hospital. You know I'm a very clever guy that can con anybody any situation anything. In any way, negative or positive. So I took it. I took the challenge with my dad and I said Dad I'm not feelign good. Kindly Take me to a hospital. He took me to a psychiatrist and he got me evaluated there was a full fledged paramedic and we will try something new. Why not? We give them ECGs. They give me shock treatment. I also pay for another one week also after they're discharged from the hospital. But then I'm back again to the drugs. Again 10 to 15 days. Same story I used to tell my dad that I am not feeling very good give me on what chance I get okay. The funny thing is, the reality is I did not want to get okay. The reality was, whenever my dad is taking to the hospital, they're when they are treating me before ECG, they are giving me morphine. I am wanting that drug to take. That is why I'm taking these excuses and going to the hospital getting treated, nice fun I had in hospitals, only thing I did not like is was giving me shock treatment. So that made my brain feel duller and duller. This thing continued and continued, he got vex and one day he went to US and he was not coming for six months or so. So I had to rely on my mother. My mother is a very, very daring, dashing, very assertive lady. She cannot tolerate all this ----, she simply call somebody. And they literally pick me up from my hostel and taken me to a rehabilitation center, against my will.
Matthew McQueeny
Wow,
How did you? How did you fund your addiction? Did you say it was a 13 year Odyssey? Is that correct? That you were that you were basically within the throes of addiction? How did you fund it?
Ravi
The first one to two years, I used to con people cheat people and I still fund myself. Later on, I started doing part time jobs, and the entire money I used to use on this. Then after I completed my education. All the money I earned, I used to put in use, I use to earn a pretty good amount of money.
Matthew McQueeny
Wow. And so when you say you conned people, what was what was the nature of the con? Like What Did you? What kinds of things would you do?
Ravi
I would like to tell them that I have some important thing to do right now. I don't have money to give it to me today and tomorrow. And then I used to apply for credit cards as many cards as possible. They used to know you give it to me because I'm a doctor. And I used to use the entire amount. My gosh, when I used to lie to my father, I cheated my father. I even stolen from home.
Matthew McQueeny
You stole from him?
Ravi
Yeah.
Matthew McQueeny
How did that make you feel?
Ravi
At that point of time, I was just thinking of my job getting done. But now I feel very sad.
Matthew McQueeny
Okay, now, why don't we let's pivot to you know, since you've been clean against, again, 18 years, congratulations on that. I know. Probably there we say it probably feels just as hard today as it did in the beginning. Right? Talk to us about I think actually I said that. AA meetings helped you?
Ravi
Yeah. When I was joined, forcibly in the rehabilitation centers there the treatment procedure is for 100 days. And every day at around 7pm they used to have meetings in house that helped me I mean, certain things got either into my subconscious brain directly. But I have not accepted the truth that I need help and how to get out of this. I have a problem. I did not accept it. That the rehabilitation center, also I escaped one day before my research and I went home straight to my mom and dad cheaters and all again started conning, lying which my mother could make out and she said you will never get okay. You get out of my house and you will do whatever you want. That day if my mother said yes to me, today I would be dead 18 years. She said no get out. That's what made me think think for five days I thought, while drinking again, and on the 5th day a thought came into my mind it said it is better to live than die. No matter what. God is good you know. Then immediately I took the vehicle and a stray went to the rehabilitation center. And I went inside knowing that they people will physically abuse me because I have escaped from the facility. But they they stood I went my my director asked me why did you come back? I said I wanted to get okay. He said okay, what are you going to do for getting Okay, he asked me, Whatever you say, he just told me shut your mouth, go on the top stay for two years. From then the recovery started. Slowly, slowly, I started putting my ego aside and learning things what they have taught me in the rehabilitation center.
Matthew McQueeny
And so you said two years?
Ravi
He said your treatment is for two years.
Matthew McQueeny
Wow. So with the accident you had, when you became clean, you know, when you became clean and you were kind of through it, where you were you were ready to really commit to that? How hard was it to see what the addiction had done to you physically? You know, when you have a clear mind, how hard was it seeing that
Ravi
It was really hard and very difficult to see. I have multiple, multiple problems physically and mentally. I was admitted to hospital twice during the withdrawal phases. Once they thought I might die, I did not die from my withdrawls. They brought me out again they put me on medication, they help a lot physically to really cope but
I still have physical problems like diabetes, then this fractured hand more pains a lot sometimes the toes pain. All these things you know, only because of the addiction. This scar marks are there forever.
Apart from physical damage, there is the art of damage of relationships and financial. Financially I was zero. absolutely zero. Being a doctor they have asked me you know, to work like a watchmen. And they said just peanuts they used to give me a salary. And relationship wise. There is there was not even a single person in this world who trusted me. They used to say miracles, you will manifest a miracle. You will make miracles happen in recovery. I don't know how others take it but it is for me. Ravi, staying one day clean is a big miracle. One day at a time I have collected 18 years of miracles. It is very hard to say clean in this society. I'm an introvert. I am not that assertive to talk to people but I have to if I have to, learned it. But when I was in addiction, I used to take the support of the drug to do anything. Now I don't have to depend on any chemical to you know, live life like a human being. Yeah, they taught me principles like humility is the basic principle. Then how, H-O-W Honesty, Open mindedness, Willingness, you have to be honest, then no knee will be open minded, then only be willing to do. These things me practice each and every day night, every time possible. I was taught that addiction is a feelings disease. I cannot express my feelings straight. I suppress my feelings and and abruptly and not according to the situation's some other feeling come out because it is full. That is how I live my half of life with addiction. But now, this program, Narcotics Anonymous and Alcoholics Anonymous helps a lot to live like a gentleman and be happy.
Matthew McQueeny
What do you do now?
Ravi
Basically, I'm a managing director of the hospital. The hospital deals with psychiatric patients, drug abuse, alcohol abuse clients. After doing my graduation videos, and now have an addiction after I have come to
recovery, they have asked me to stay away from my profession because of visibility of the medication in my hands. You know, I might drink and slip in the situation and you never know what will happen, you might just take it and shot it. That's why you don't do that profession for four years. I did not want to waste those four years. So I read psychology I did Ms. Psychology, then essentially two three years back and again the USA MBDA. Basically, a psychologist now
Matthew McQueeny
and it must make you feel like how many people did you help with the addiction centers?
Ravi
Just close to four digits,
Matthew McQueeny
Four digits. So that must give you some feeling that must make you feel good inside after what you feel you probably did to others right into family and all that must feel good to kind of pay it forward.
Ravi
Yeah, they told me one thing in a selfish motto. The selfish motto I did this. Selfish motto was give what you have only to get more.
Matthew McQueeny
What? So Akshay had a note about mom show. What does this mean?
Akshay Sura
I can I can actually talk about that. So what happened is Sheetal and I used to watch this show called Mom. And it's all about this mom and daughter who are addicts, and they are surrounded by people who are recovering. They're challenges, ups and downs, right. So it's a good show from a perspective of taking it in and it's comedic. So yeah, it gave Sheetal and I a good perspective of the challenges addicts go through on a day to day basis but up until that point, we never realized how difficult it was. So we ended up having a pretty long conversation overnight one night when Ravi was here. And that's when we knew what the day to day struggles are how difficult it is. It's a fight every single day trying not to go back to the previous life not to lose everything. So I think it gave us a good light, comedic way of getting into a life of an addict. And then we ended up having conversations to find out more what exactly happened and things like that.
Matthew McQueeny
Akshay, how did that change your maybe conception of what you saw him going through when you then heard what it was about like did you almost think that it was his fault when he was doing it? And then maybe you see there's more things at play like what was that evolution in your thinking like?
Akshay Sura
So I think people have a easy way of blaming people who are addicted to things, regardless of what they're addicted, right, it's easy to label and say, oh, they're the ones at fault. But over a period of time, once you get to know the whole process, and you know, from things like alcohol addiction to gambling addiction, it is a true disease. It's something which you can't stop, you need help, you need to go through process in order to keep it at bay. And even if you end up successfully doing so. It's a hour to hour, minute to minute struggle to keep it away. I think by talking with him, which we've never had an honest conversation about that part of his life until that moment, but watching that show, and then one of the after that conversation, there's a service, I use a shuttle service to drop me off at airports. And when I used to travel a lot before the pandemic, and one of the drivers son went through a similar journey. And we ended up talking about, you know, similar things, the struggles, and it looks, you know, again, it's easy for outsiders to pinpoint addicts and say it's their fault. But I think you have to give props for people who are trying to recover and make an effort because it is not easy. I don't know how difficult it is because I'm not in those shoes, but it is not an easy journey at all.
Matthew McQueeny
Got it, so Ravi, do you remember that conversation with Akshay and his wife?
Ravi
Yes, I do
Matthew McQueeny
And what do you what do you think about when, when you had that. Was that a really big moment for the relationship?
Ravi
It was a really big moment for us. Out of the addiction that was the first, since then, that I could present myself to my brother, what exactly I was, what exactly I am, and how difficult it was to get out of that. Because of that today, relationship between me Akshay, Sheetal, the kids are so nice that I can rely on them all day, they can rely on me for a long period of time. That conversation helped a lot.
Matthew McQueeny
It's great.
Ravi
And I remember one thing after before that conversation also Akshay after his marriage instead of India for the first time. And by then I was clean for two years. And I had opened my own organization. Akshay, Sheetal both came there. That place, they saw the place they did two things. One thing is they have taken out time and I have come to my place and seen it. The second thing they did was they have been, the brochures for the organization and funded site. That was a moment I could never forget.
Matthew McQueeny
Absolutely, that's a that's a big part of of coming back from the bottom of things right is seeing that there are people there to to put the hand out and and to give you that impetus. So what is your day to day like you know 18 years in now? You woke up today, what's it like what are you thinking in your head? Do you still need to think about not doing something or are you able to think about just living?
Ravi
Every moment is a struggle, what I daily do as soon as I get I just pray that thank you so much for giving me today please keep me sober for today. These two things I will ask God. Then I will start my daily routine but the biggest part is when you check crooked brain you know, very very crooked, does not go straight. All the things whatever it is you first think, negative, it will first think negative then I have to spend one two minutes on simultaneously now I'm speaking to you right? My eyes saw your eyes blinking one eye blinking. Okay, I just saw one of your eye blink, my mind immediately says you should get this given signal saying that it is over, don't worry. That is what he's saying. That is not possible for a human being to think or do like, think like that and assess people, I know that. But still, my mind thinks that way. So it takes about half a minute or so to correct my mind. Think again, and put it straight. Thinking is a thinking needs correction, when thinking is corrected, then the behavior is corrected. When the behavior is corrected, then the feeling are good. That is happening everyday.
Matthew McQueeny
Yeah, no, that's it's true the brain is the brain is a crazy thing, you know, all all the ways that can go just within an hour, forget a day, forget a life it just, you know. I always joke that, you know, for those of us who might have some procrastination in our veins, that I've learned, I've learned to never listen to myself telling me, hey, you'll get to that, you know, do that on Friday, because I know you're not going to be a different, you're really not going to be that different person on Friday than you are right now. Do it right now, it's always a it's always an interesting battle, you know, this, this brain gives us the ability to think and out think ourselves. So Akshay brought up, obviously, what we've all gone through globally, in the last year and year and a couple months, and how COVID-19 has, you know, he was talking about how he used to travel and take a shuttle service. And now we don't do that as much. What is COVID times been like for for you over the past year, and, and sometime
Ravi
Over the past year, there was no major difference for me, because there was a lockdown in my state. But there is no lockdown for me. As a doctor, I can go to my hospital. So there was no obstruction for me in my office. There were clients admitted in my business place, our work was going pretty good. COVID really did not disturb me much. I would say
Matthew McQueeny
Was there was there ever a time because, you know, we COVID was a very stressful time, even if even if you didn't get it, right. I mean, for a lot of people being locked down is very different, right? You're in your home and I think people might have started to I mean, I'm not seeing statistics in front of me, but people probably, you know, drank a little more, now that we're home and not having to commute a lot where, or maybe taking some, you know, I mean, even marijuana being more legalized, right, they might have done that a little more. And because it all felt so big and stressful. That must have been a real challenge. When we talk about out thinking our own brain, there was probably a part of that that was a challenge for you going into year 18 of being clean, where it was like another challenge put in front of you, right?
Ravi
About thinking about alcohol, or any drug, any substance using it again, or thinking of using it is very, very rigid. Only when I go to some parties really just when I see people, when they smoke weed and or a fraction of a second thought comes just for a fraction of a second. What if I take a litle but what I don't start is one is too many 1000 is never enough. So that is very pretty strong in my head. So that's why it always rejects about these chemicals. Now I'm in a maintenance phase of recovery. Be here. I have to you know, basically think about my physical, emotional, spiritual and financial by relationship parts. Prevously, when I was in addiction, all the guilt, all the mistakes I have done all the feelings, negative feelings. I have worked on it and I have shared with those people. That is complete.
Matthew McQueeny
Yeah, sorry. I was just gonna say How old are you now? 49. And so we have this question that we like to ask to our guests, Akshay and I, and it might be really interesting right? In the in the position you said it so the question we ask is What advice would you give to the 25 year old you? So with all you've known with you know with all you've come to know all that you've experienced addiction coming out getting clean? What would you say to that 25 year old Ravi right now?
Ravi
One is too many, thousand is never enough.
Matthew McQueeny
Yeah you like that term, that's a good one
Ravi
One day at a time we can make so many things.
Matthew McQueeny
And so that's a good that's a that's a good thing to say. Now would that Ravi understand what you mean?
Ravi
Oh, denial might be very srong he might not understand initially. But when he goes down to rock bottom to the addiction, he will understand. My parents kicked me out of the house. My wife left me. I lost everything. That change made me think if I had everything, I will not think.
Matthew McQueeny
Yeah. So that's what you would tell the 25 year old you what kind of as our kind of last question here. What would what what would you say? What kind of advice not just to the 25 year old you now but what what advice would you give to others struggling with addiction from somebody who, who wiggled their way out who still fights every day, right to keep that quelled down to keep that pushed down and to to live. To live an honest life. What would you, what would you advise others struggling?
Ravi
I would say they need to admit first that they have a problem. And then they have to take help. NA and AA is ready to give help, whoever comes to them and ask for help and it works. If it has worked for one, it will work for other person also. There are 1000s and 1000s of people in this program using the same program and living a beautiful life and all this is free. You just have to ask.
Matthew McQueeny
Well, that's that's tremendous advice Ravi. So I think we will take this moment. This has been a great 45 minutes of discussion. I think we're going to take this moment to say thank you for being on the Konaverse podcast, and have a great rest of the day.
Ravi
Thank you.
Outro
Thank you for entering the universe. We hope these discussions gave you something to think about, helped you learn something new and provided a window into someone else's story. Everyone's story is worthy and important. Until next time, remember to be fair, be kind and never settle.